|
|
Post by cookmysock on Aug 5, 2018 9:02:44 GMT
As a season draws to a close, & a warming breeze blows across Auckland Harbour, & the local hero's surge to an unlikely finals berth, next years plans are well underway, but a hurdle has been encountered, that can only be settled by the honchos from a foreign land, ASRL headquarters.
In normal circumstances, a coach will put players into positions that best suits the team. Decisions are made based on a players physique, skills, speed, footwork & fitness. Not so IN ASRL land, where positions are allocated by others, bringing an occasional headache to a coach of players, capable of versatility & dynamic ability to adapt.
"Dear ASRL Raters,
Before the ratings are closed off for seson 2018, & contracts are drawn up for the coming 18/19 season, we, as a club, put to you a question that needs to be answered to enable our club to move forward.
As you are aware, players are rated in ASRL based on their performances in real life rugby league, NRL & Betfred Super League competitions.
Before us, is the unusual situation where a rating request was recently, & unfairly dismissed, due to a lack of understanding of the raters. You cannot be held responsible, as we do not always & cannot be expected to watch in minute detail, each & every player across the competitions. It's an impossible task.
Sam Burgess was presented for a positional change from lock to 2nd rower. This request was somehow declined, despite Slammin Sam playing lock, 2nd row & prop for both his home club the rabbitohs, as well as his national & beloved England side.
OK, so it needs to be explained to me how this works.
Each team has a lock....a single position on the field.
Souths have Sam Burgess, who is named at lock most weeks. He plays 71 minutes per week, on average.
Souths also have Cameron Murray, an up & coming young tearaway who is averaging 48 minutes per match. When he comes on, he takeds over the lock position on the field, moving Sam to a wider back rower role on a weekly basis.
Hence the problem, how can a team have TWO dedicated locks?
I propose that Sam Burgess is playing 71 minutes per week, & with Murray on for 48 of those minutes, Sam is only playing lock for 23 minutes, the remainder of his game time, 48 minutes, is spent in the back row, with occasional filling in at the prop forward position.
Without doubt the ASRL raters have erred in the decision to have them both, & we are appealing the error as politely as possible to revert Sam Burgess to his rightful 2nd row position in the ASRL game. Mistakes happen, but common sens emust prevail........A team cannot have 2 x locks on the field at the same time.
Feel free to contact us with any questions, we will be happy to assist in righting this wrong.
Sincerely Yours,
Auckland Orcas"
There we have it folks, a letter for the hierarchy, delivered via the quality rugby league magazine, ASRL news.
We will report back on the proceedings in relation to this hot topic as it progresses, but like the Auckland Orcas management, we are confident that common sense will prevail in this most unexpected positional controversy.
|
|
|
|
Post by bazal on Aug 5, 2018 9:13:04 GMT
Dear Auckland;
Beau Scott, Peni Terepo and Nathan Brown are "locks"
Nathan Brown plays 60-80 minutes a week.
Peni Terepo plays around 40 minutes a week.
When Beau Scott was in the side, he was playing 35 minutes a week. How can a team have THREE dedicated locks?
Because they all just play in the middle forward roles, at lock or at prop.
"Middle forward" is a more generic term than ever before, and Sam Burgess almost never turns up on an edge, spending his time almost exclusively as a middle forward.
As such, we regret that we must oppose the request to recognise Sam Burgess as an edge forward, and encourage other clubs to do the same.
Sincerely, The North QLD Dolphins
|
|
|
|
Post by Mackdadday on Aug 5, 2018 9:30:29 GMT
I think that every coach should have the right to designate their second rowers or locks as second rowers or locks. What is a lock doing differently? We often see players moving around in the 8 11 or 13 from round to round.
If we think in terms of ASRL, A lock can technically play 5/8 and hooker. A second rower can play prop or centre. A prop can play just second row i think as an alternative position.
Doesn't it therefore make more sense to therefore let Burgess be a second rower as requested? Look at Glasgow. They have JackDe Belin playing five eight. Can we really see Burgess doing that?
My vote is definitely that he should be allowed to be a second rower or prop as chosen. ASRLwise it just makes more sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by bazal on Aug 5, 2018 10:12:03 GMT
I think that every coach should have the right to designate their second rowers or locks as second rowers or locks. What is a lock doing differently? We often see players moving around in the 8 11 or 13 from round to round. If we think in terms of ASRL, A lock can technically play 5/8 and hooker. A second rower can play prop or centre. A prop can play just second row i think as an alternative position. Doesn't it therefore make more sense to therefore let Burgess be a second rower as requested? Look at Glasgow. They have JackDe Belin playing five eight. Can we really see Burgess doing that? My vote is definitely that he should be allowed to be a second rower or prop as chosen. ASRLwise it just makes more sense. I agree if it's a player who genuinely plays both. I also think that coaches should be able to designate where their forwards play, but within reason. Nathan Brown, for eg, should never be a back rower. He should be allowed to be a prop if chosen though, because lock and prop are pretty much the same position these days. Tepai Moeroa plays edge and middle, but the sim allows for that so it's already catered for. There is a lot of difference between middle and edge. |
|
|
|
Post by Mackdadday on Aug 5, 2018 10:27:49 GMT
So what would be Burgess' playable positions in your opinion? Lock and prop? Second row seems reasonable to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by happybadger on Aug 5, 2018 13:15:16 GMT
Dear Auckland Orcas, North Queensland Dolphins: Before I make a decision on which side to support in your trans-Tasman argument (which is less important than the spiteful, hateful, and utterly evil intra-Tasman misogyny of Cricket Australia towards Angela Williamson), I would like to see the proof that is in the possession of the North Queensland organisation that Mr. Burgess has NOT ever played second row for Rabbitohs or England from an impartial source (like, for instance, Opta). Considering the evidence that I discovered on Rugby League Project's website, analysing Mr. Burgess' positional deployment throughout his career: Sam Burgess Positional Analysis unless I see irrefutable evidence from an unimpeachable source that Mr. Burgess has not played significant time at second row, I will agree with the Auckland organisation that Mr. Burgess should be permitted to play second row within ASRL. Kind regards, Zienna Merton Chief Executive Officer Rochdale Raptors RLFC |
|
|
|
Post by cookmysock on Aug 5, 2018 21:09:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by happybadger on Aug 5, 2018 21:40:07 GMT
That's exactly what I linked to, Sauteedmonchausette!
|
|
|
|
Post by cookmysock on Aug 5, 2018 21:55:04 GMT
That's exactly what I linked to, Sauteedmonchausette! LOL, Ooops!!  |
|
|
|
Post by bossman on Aug 6, 2018 0:20:00 GMT
Everybody here has raised some pretty valid points. I am happy for ASRL coaches to change the position of a player (within reason) in order to suit their side. However, if a coach decides to do this, I feel he must do it through a re-rate process. The re-rate should be judged on two counts
(a) is it reasonable for the player to be picked in that position?
(b) Would his rating be changed due to playing in a different position? For example, I'd rate a guy like Moses M'Bye higher at fullback than if I decided to switch him to 5/8th or halfback.
In the case of Burgess, I think it is absolutely reasonable for him to be picked at second row. But, this should be done on a re-rate appeal.
|
|
|
|
Post by bazal on Aug 6, 2018 0:26:23 GMT
I couldn't particularly care less about Burgess, my concern is that if we let a bloke who has been named as an edge forward twice in the past three years be rated as an edge forward just because he might fill in there occasionally, what else must we allow?
I've not seen Burgess shift to the edge when Murray comes on, if anything Murray plays one wider if all three Burgess boys are on the field. So, based on the times he has actually, 100% played second row, I could request Nathan Brown to be changed to hooker (for eg). He has probably played about 200 minutes there in the last two seasons, so why not? He was slotting in for 20-30 mins a game before King/Smith came into the side in 2017 and even came off the bench at hooker twice.
It's not about being capable of playing a position or not. Burgess is no doubt capable of playing on the edge, although his defence would be a lot worse these days. It's the fact that he has received his rating as a lock/middle forward, as has Brown in my example. They haven't been rated as an edge forward or a hooker. Brown would be about a 3 in attack at hooker, he was appalling, but we had no option and so he got a go.
Josh McGuire has played as many games at hooker as Burgess has in the back row over the last two seasons. Sam Thaiday has played more at hooker. Would we allow McGuire to be an 8/8 hooker if the coach requested it? Or would we hide behind the alternate positions for lock?
I think we have to accept that some players are just a victim of the way the sim works, especially when they play a few minutes here and there in the position....
|
|
|
|
Post by bossman on Aug 6, 2018 0:46:48 GMT
I couldn't particularly care less about Burgess, my concern is that if we let a bloke who has been named as an edge forward twice in the past three years be rated as an edge forward just because he might fill in there occasionally, what else must we allow? I've not seen Burgess shift to the edge when Murray comes on, if anything Murray plays one wider if all three Burgess boys are on the field. So, based on the times he has actually, 100% played second row, I could request Nathan Brown to be changed to hooker (for eg). He has probably played about 200 minutes there in the last two seasons, so why not? He was slotting in for 20-30 mins a game before King/Smith came into the side in 2017 and even came off the bench at hooker twice. It's not about being capable of playing a position or not. Burgess is no doubt capable of playing on the edge, although his defence would be a lot worse these days. It's the fact that he has received his rating as a lock/middle forward, as has Brown in my example. They haven't been rated as an edge forward or a hooker. Brown would be about a 3 in attack at hooker, he was appalling, but we had no option and so he got a go. Josh McGuire has played as many games at hooker as Burgess has in the back row over the last two seasons. Sam Thaiday has played more at hooker. Would we allow McGuire to be an 8/8 hooker if the coach requested it? Or would we hide behind the alternate positions for lock? I think we have to accept that some players are just a victim of the way the sim works, especially when they play a few minutes here and there in the position.... On reflection, you are correct. Lock is absolutely a third prop position these days. The vast majority of Sam's work is done in the middle and has his best work rated as such as a middle forward. Im with you here. Taumalolo should really be in the same boat and not be picked as a backrower. |
|
|
|
Post by bazal on Aug 6, 2018 1:09:34 GMT
I'd be more than happy for Burgess to be rated as a prop, for the record. He is a middle forward after all, and that way he can play back row in the sim.
|
|
|
|
Post by cookmysock on Aug 6, 2018 1:46:21 GMT
I'd be more than happy for Burgess to be rated as a prop, for the record. He is a middle forward after all, and that way he can play back row in the sim. So in your eyes, if I pushed for Burgess to be a prop, or Murray a back rower, you would be OK? I want to sort this to everyones satisfaction, but my point stands that they cant both be locks.....its impossible given the situation at souths when both are on the field together the majority of the match. |
|
|
|
Post by bazal on Aug 6, 2018 1:54:09 GMT
I'd be more than happy for Burgess to be rated as a prop, for the record. He is a middle forward after all, and that way he can play back row in the sim. So in your eyes, if I pushed for Burgess to be a prop, or Murray a back rower, you would be OK? I want to sort this to everyones satisfaction, but my point stands that they cant both be locks.....its impossible given the situation at souths when both are on the field together the majority of the match. Of course they can both be locks. Lock is just a third middle forward. And tbh, if you really watch the games and try and work out the difference these days (given the lock just plays like a prop) it seems that the only major one is actually which hitup the "locks" seem to regularly take. And obviously where they defend in the line. As I said, Parramatta at times had three "locks" on the field. Two of them just played prop. Murray and Burgess are locks, which is a middle forward position, so I think coaches should be able to have them rated as props if they choose to. But unless they play a lot of edge forward I don't think they should be rated as edge players. I'd say the same for Brown/Scott/Terepo, even though all have stood at edge forward at times during games. |
|
